brent(inWorship) - Latest Comments in What Makes A Man…A Man

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:29:40 -0000

Mandy, we were pretty certain there had been some messy stuff in her past. But our god is bigger than any of those issues and there still comes a time where people either surrender to him or not. She has made her decision.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Mandy — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:57:25 -0000

ckroboth - AND her mother committed suicide when she was 12. "Tracy" was left w/ her Dad & 2 brothers.

Mandy's last blog post...You thought what?

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Mandy — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:53:14 -0000

ckroboth - in her previous life (teenage years) she was a Hawaiian beauty pageant contestant.

Mandy's last blog post...You thought what?

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:18:38 -0000

Michelle, agreed :)

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:36:21 -0000

I think we see things much the same. ;)

Michelle's last blog post...Boot Camp

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:52:10 -0000

Sure, I think that the person asking wanted to see if the church would condone Divorce in this situation. My opinion is that they were not under God's marriage covenant, sot hey weren't married. So, in that case, there is no divorce, just a legal destroying of the marriage documents.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:39:20 -0000

Thanks again, Brent. ;)

I think the question asked at Dan Kimball's blog is bogus. Not to be too hard nosed :roll: but the first century church did have this situation in Corinth. Nothing new under the sun, right? Sure, maybe not 20 years ago, but around 2000 years ago homosexuality was quite prevalent in the Roman empire.

I think most of our questions can be answered scripturally.

Michelle's last blog post...A Simple Vacation

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:09:38 -0000

Michelle,

It may not be showing up for the same reason you aren't seeing this discussion in your dashboard. I am self hosted now and not a part of wordpress anymore. So, this blog won't show up on the wordpress dashboard. also, your wordpress avatar won't work over here.

You can do 2 things to change that...
#1 Sign up with gravatar.com it stores your avatar with your email address, so every time you sing in somewhere to leave a comment, your avatar will show up no matter what the site is.
#2 Make sure you select the box next to "Notify me of followup comments via e-mail"underneath the comment box. This will send an email to you whenever someone responds to the post, so you can foloow along.

hope that helps.

Now...

I think as times keep changing, the church will be faced with new questions and tough decisions. I was reading Dan Kimball's blog the other day and someone had asked hi this question,

"If a homosexual couple gets married legally - and then sometimes afterwards this couple studies Scripture and determines that the practice of homosexuality would be considered sin - would the church endorse and recommend that they get divorced, if the same church holds that a couple shouldn't get divorced unless there was marital unfaithfulness etc. and in this case, they were faithful to each other in their gay marriage."

I think I know how I would answer, but I am pretty certain the church didn't have to think thing like this through 20 years ago.

as ties continue to change, I think the church will have to address many things it never has before. I thought

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:56:59 -0000

One more question, why won't my avatar show on your site?

Ok...two...and why won't the discussion show up in my comments in my dashboard?

Michelle's last blog post...A Simple Vacation

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:55:50 -0000

Thanks, Brent. I still pray for reconciliation. Our world is very confused and the church needs to remain a place of light shining in the darkness.

Michelle's last blog post...A Simple Vacation

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:33:21 -0000

Darla, we truly need to lift this person and others up in prayer.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:27:53 -0000

Michelle, no more details needed. I am sure it was very difficult.

Let me clarify something as well. I think the process of dealing with this person would have been different if they were born into this situation verses making the decision down the road. But, I think the outcome may have been the same though.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:20:04 -0000

I went to sleep...sorry.

This person was not born with confused genitalia, if that is the question, Brent. This was something she/he chose later. I was glad to see Carl's response. After finding out and discussing the situation for more clarification, he decided to leave the church knowing our biblical stand (1 Cor. 5). We let him know if he ever wanted to talk further we would never turn him away. It was one of the most confusing situations we've ever come across. Even now, years later, it tears at my heart and I cannot give many details - I feel it would be a betrayal of sorts.

Michelle's last blog post...A Simple Vacation

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

darla — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:43:24 -0000

I think this whole things with this person is very sad...I wonder what/who/when did something so drastic happen that he/she would rather be something unnatural than deal with who they are. Having a pregnancy seems like her/his choice, maybe second thoughts...or maybe a result of the reason that drove them to this point..only God knows, but now I feel like I need to pray for them to experience Jesus.

darla's last blog post...Walking Partners

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:35:19 -0000

Carl, agreed!

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

ckroboth — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:01:53 -0000

Brent-- I am just glad that there is a God that will sort all this out in the end. It is just waiting out his timing that is hard sometimes.

ckroboth's last blog post...Identity as Innocent Children

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:55:24 -0000

Brandy, I didn't see that in the article. So "he" stopped taking the hormones before the pregnancy. Wow! that speaks volumes to this persons decision as well.

Mandy,

"He also claimed that after the show they would be moving their business (t-shirt designs) out of Bend into Portland which they believed would be more accepting."

"We have become dependant on suppressing feelings & emotions, rather than experiencing."

Whatever pain this person is going through, they are doing everything to run from it and suppress it. Very good thoughts Mandy. Definitely things we all need to think about.

Carl, I believe very strongly that in this situation, this to some extent has taken place. It is either a terrible past or a huge arrogance, that has led this person to make these decisions.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

ckroboth — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:07:14 -0000

Mandy.. Good points.

This is a hypothetical..

Much like Mandy said we use drugs to cover and mask pain...
Maybe something horrific happened to her(this person is female no matter the drugs or surgeries) when she was younger that she was made to feel guilty for. This made her start to resent her femininity. In her hurt and anger, she saw sexual reassignment as a way to mask her anger and hurt towards her true female identity.

ckroboth's last blog post...Identity as Innocent Children

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Mandy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:41:14 -0000

We take meds when we have aches, pains, cough...REAL tangible type situations. We also take meds when we feel depressed, have too much anxiety, hyperactivity...emotional things. We have become dependant on suppressing feelings & emotions, rather than experiencing. It somehow seems easier. Problem is, we don't calculate the risks or problems that will be created. Or even worse..we don't CARE about said risks or problems. We just want less pain, less emotions, less feeling.

While Thomas was on Oprah, he said that he's having to receive MORE meds to keep his body from rejecting the pregnancy because of all the male hormone he had taken (he stopped taking them while pregnant).

He also claimed that after the show they would be moving their business (t-shirt designs) out of Bend into Portland which they believed would be more accepting.

Mandy's last blog post...Writers Blog (ck)

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Brandy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:29:52 -0000

oooh B, good point. I never thought of that. :( That is sad. I would think that all of those hormones WOULD have an affect. It did say in one article that I read that "he" stopped taking them prior to getting PG (something SO wrong with this sentence) so hopefully they were out of "his" system?? But even still, who knows what the long term affects will be. :(

Brandy's last blog post...Pictures!!

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:15:16 -0000

Michelle, a question, was this transgender person one that was born and given "assigned" a gender or one that made the decision, like this person in my post, to later change there gender orientation?

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

inworship — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:13:27 -0000

Michelle, that is a completely different discussion, in my opinion. especially when it come to church leadership.

But, I would have to agree with Carl here on the standards of church. The definition of church needs to be established as well. Many churches are both evangelistic in nature as well as more discipleship focused. that isn't the discussion here necessarily, but I see people in different roles on both those environments.

"The Church" is the body of believers. not a building or services or programs. "The Church" is held to a standard and to be a part of it, we are to be held accountable byt God's Word.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

ckroboth — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:49:58 -0000

Michelle,

This is what Paul had to say to the church in Corinth... http://www.biblegateway.com...

Here is his conclusion....

1 Cor5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."[b]

This goes for every person who is part of Christ's church who are living in any type of sin, not just sexual sin.

In other words if they claim to be followers of Christ they should know there actions are sin and repent from it.

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:45:52 -0000

Early in our ministry we had this situation occur...but no one knew until much later. What do you think the appropriate response would have been? Anyone?

Michelle's last blog post...A Simple Vacation

Re: What Makes A Man…A Man

Michelle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:40:01 -0000

So what do we do in the church when a transgender has come in, living as a married couple, serving in a leadership? Or even not serving, but taking the name Christian yet living outside the biblical boundaries?

Michelle's last blog post...A Simple Vacation