brent(inWorship) - Latest Comments in Truth Is Not Good Enough

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Judy — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:48:42 -0000

Amy, That is how all mothers should be, I wish I had been like that before. We are all beautiful in God's eyes. How wonderful is that? It's beyond words.

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Amy — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:59:51 -0000

I haven't read any of the other comments, but I'll comment any way. I completely disagree that the mother should never tell her child about the rape. One of my very good friends was the "product" of a rape, and was almost aborted. She was told by her mother early on how special she is. She knows that God is real because she is alive. She knows how big God is because her mother made the decision to keep her despite the horrendous circumstances she was born out of. Her mission in life is to tell women, especially young women, that they are beautiful God made creatures, no matter where they came from.

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

inworship — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 03:40:49 -0000

Thanks Judy for your thoughts!

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Judy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:23:55 -0000

I believe the daughter should be told. She is still a gift from God. I am probably a lot older than the rest of the ones that commented, but was raped as a child and when my mother found out she told me that wasn't a nice thing for me to do. Then I was molested until I was 16 (never told mother again) I believed I was always at fault and that what I was here for. I watched over my daughter so nothing bad would happen to her, but I hurt her by dragging her through so much. I did become a whore as I felt all I was good for was as a piece of meat. My dauther brought me back to God 14 years ago. I have worked very hard to get over my problems, but at times satin throws them in my face and I have problems with them. Now that I have God in my life again it helps so much. I used to ask God why these things happened to me. I believe they help your character and make it so you can help others. Sorry, I'm now rambling.

Tam I agree with you all the way. You are such a very special person.

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

inworship — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:23:58 -0000

econmommy, thanks so much for commenting and jumping in the discussion. these are definitely some hard thoughts to ponder. I appreciate your thoughts on this.

tam :)

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

TheNorEaster — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:53:09 -0000

(I mean that in a good way.)

TheNorEaster's last blog post...SunBeams 6

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

TheNorEaster — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:52:45 -0000

...Tam just blew me away. Again.

TheNorEaster's last blog post...SunBeams 6

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

tam — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:09:56 -0000

my honest opinion here. naturally ;) people who are afraid of the truth (and i speak from experience) are typically enslaved and in bondage to some sort of lie. the truth is always there...but in our fear of 'it' we can easily begin to justify reasons and construct ways to hide it or withhold it. that not only leaves a mark on our hearts, spirits, emotions...we then begin to react defensively when the truth begins to show itself...then not only are we experiencing the pain of the battle that wages in our spirit over what is right...so do others around us as they witness something "off" yet can not understand it because the very person they trust cannot handle...truth.

tam's last blog post...the truth can hurt - but does that make it bad?

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

econmommy — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:44:41 -0000

Interesting question...As a currently-healing victim of sexual abuse, I can empathize with her pain, though none of my experiences resulted in pregnancy. I repressed all of my abuse until a couple of years ago, when I started getting flashbacks...which has led me to learning more about the brain and how it stores memory, which is where the real relevance to this question comes in...

Our brains begin storing memories while in the womb, as early as 6-8 weeks of gestation. I imagine the mother experienced a gamut of emotions, both about the rape, and then about the resulting pregnancy. Her daughter, therefore, experienced the same emotions--the fear, possible rejection, confusion, and many more, but without the understanding of where they were coming from. We tend to internalize those feelings and direct them at ourselves.

Regardless of what the mother tells her, that little girl will always carry that emotional memory, and it will affect her deeply, though it will likely be subconscious.

Though 2 is young to reveal the truth (she doesn't even know where babies come from yet), eventually, sharing the truth with her daughter about the circumstances of her conception and the source of the emotions is one of the few ways to bring healing to a deep wound that is almost certainly, already there. It may take a deep healing prayer ministry effort to accomplish the task (see Deep Wounds, Deep Healing or other works by Dr. Charles H. Kraft, as well as other books on the subject). It's an amazing process, led by the Spirit, and I've witnessed, and experienced (see my blog), incredible healing miracles through the process.

econmommy's last blog post...Lighten Up

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Heidi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:23:05 -0000

It's not about me.... it's about HIM!!!

Heidi's last blog post...Inside- Out Authenticity

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Heidi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:20:07 -0000

"Another thing I just thought of [thank you Holy Spirit] is that a good measure for making your decision is your motive."

I love this comment. What is the purpose of the conversation with the daughter? WE have no clue..
My daughter is 17, well developed and I sat down with over a Jamba juice and told her honestly of what happened. WHY?
Because I don't want her to be blindsighted in believing that the world is perfect. She needs to have protection and the skills to know from right and wrong.

No Nor, I didn't have a child with my rape, but I did birth self-condemnation and lost of purity/innocence, and the feeling I was a whore because "walt" told me so.

I would want my child to have the freedom to tell me there was danger of this happening.
I would want a women to be free to have a relationship with me under confidence that I would listen because I understood.

Granted there is a time, a place, and God's grace in reservation also.

I just learned recently that God is using my testimony in all this everday.

I no longer let "Walt" to haunt me.

Please let me tell you... It's taken 25 years to overcome this...

Isn't God awesome!!!

Heidi's last blog post...Inside- Out Authenticity

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Michelle — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:13:16 -0000

I'm late again...I'm always late...

most of my thoughts on the subject until then were just meaningless conjecture. And even now, I can only honestly say that I simply caught a glimpse. Because unless you’ve been through it, that’s just about all it is–a glimpse. Or meaningless conjecture. ~NorEaster

I married into a family with many secrets. Over the past 5 years lots of them have surfaced. My sister-in-law had 5 babies from the age of 13-18...she adopted out two girls and aborted the other three. The second child adopted out found her a few years ago, she was so happy because she didn't like the home she was adopted into and she found she was the result of a high school romance. She called herself "the love child".

In the course of finding her birth mom, she found she had another sister out there. The first girl who was adopted out was the result of a rape, but she didn't know that...

This child (the child of a rape) loved her adopted home, was a young married woman with her first child. When she found out she was the result of a rape, from well-intentioned but not well-informed family members, it shattered her world. She could not get her mind around what her father must have been like...She has since severed all ties with the family, it was too much to bear.

I'm not always sure we should tell our "truths", especially when another's psyche is involved. The truth that sets us free is the truth that all our sins have been dealt with at the cross. The truth that Christ died for ALL sin and we are totally new.

We don't have to reveal all the ugliness in the world, or our lives, to understand we are all sinners needing grace. We can share our stories when we have them understood, but to share a story that might ruin someone else's perspective of themselves/others for the sake of "telling the truth" might be a limited perspective.

So much needs to be evaluated in telling something like this to a child or an adult. The mother may have dealt with the forgiveness and restoration of what happened to her, but that doesn't mean the child is ready to hear it all. Each of us is unique in how we will hear and evaluate ourselves based upon what we understand to be truth.

I really liked James' comment at the first...

I am certain that there are details of heaven and hell that God has chosen not to reveal to us in this life, either because the magnificence of heaven’s glory is too much for us to comprehend, or the savage torture of hell that we’ve been spared from is too terrifying for our minds to deal with.

No blanket statements when it's all conjecture anyway...God deals with us individually with much grace and mercy...revealing to us what we can handle...not giving us more than we can bear.

I guess I'm saying CAUTION is the best approach, IMHO.

Michelle's last blog post...Chock-full of Truth

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

inworship — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:00:49 -0000

Les, I m blown away again, that someone would share. But as you have said in your comment, you are going to be faithful to e a testimony for Him. We are for His Glory and He will place the time and appropriateness in front of us.

You have given us some absolutely wonderful wisdom! Not just for those dealing with a situation like, this, but also for those in other situations where God is healing and truth is forthcoming.

Thank you!

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

gchyayles — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:54:21 -0000

I was sexually assaulted as a child and I was raped when I was a SR in college. It hasn't always been this easy to share that with just anyone without becoming extremely anxious and depressed. God delivered me from the pain and mistrust that followed those two experiences but it was a process. I praise God that He used my experience as an awesome testimony to the people that I served when I was working in the Domestic/Sexual Violence field for 4 years.

From a spiritual perspective, truth is truth. God doesn't define truth as "only under certain exceptions." Having said that, I believe that God leads us to share truth with people in our lives as He deems appropriate. Let me see if I can articulate my point: if my daughter asked me if I had ever been sexually assaulted, I would tell her the truth. That is what I am called to do. To say "no" would be lying and lying is never an option for God. However, if she did not ask me, then my decision to share the truth with her would be based on the Holy Spirit's leading. There have been several times in my life where God has told me not to tell someone something that pertains to them or me because the timing was not appropriate or because it was not for me to tell them that particular thing. And then there have been times in my life where God has told me to share the truth with someone who did not neccessarily ask me for it.

My deliverance from those two traumatic experiences are a testimony. If that is the context God wants me to share that with my daughter/children then I shall be obedient and do so. If the context is safety, then I will do so. If the context is empathy, then I will do so [maybe she goes through the same thing, as hard as that is for me to think about, it's nothing something I can control]. The common thread is that God is the One who has to direct a conversation of this kind. He is the ultimate Wisdom and He will always give the appropriate answer.

Another thing I just thought of [thank you Holy Spirit] is that a good measure for making your decision is your motive. Are you sharing for yourself or are you sharing for the benefit of the person you're sharing with? God will never ask you to relieve your burden by burdening somebody else. I am a firm believer that one person's truth [as God has asked to reveal it] will never put someobody else in bondage. It's like in my therapy sessions and when I think about self-disclosure. Whenever I think about it being a good idea, I ask myself, am I doing this because I am needing something from the client or gaining something by self-disclosing or is it because hearing that I went through the same thing may add something to this client's healing experience.

Good thoughts everybody. I understand how heavy this conversation is and I didn't read through all the comments but I appreciate everyone walking in love and sharing their thoughts. God bless!

gchyayles's last blog post...Today’s praise dance

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

inworship — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:52:38 -0000

Wow, I am blown away by the continued thoughts.

Brad, I believe that when we know the truth that we are truly able to be the men or women God has created us to be. Healed and strong in Him.

Heidi, I am humbled that you would share with us. I will never know what you went through, but I can rejoice with you now knowing what God has done in you. As a brother in Christ, I am so proud of you! Thank you for your insight and your wisdom!

Ric, I have watched over and over as the truth comes out and how damaging it has been to those who withheld it.

Blessed1, the ability to release truth properly is huge. Instead of allowing the information to just appear and be dropped in someone's lap.

Jon, tough questions that we can only speculate for this woman, but can really consider for each of us.

Noreaster, I am not sure what is so frustrating. I have read through all the comments as well and they are very thoughtful and lots of good questions and wisdom. We know that we are not and cannot speak for this woman. #1 we only have some of the facts and #2 we don't know her personally.

What we do know is many of the things that people go through and how to walk them through it. I had an opportunity to talk to a good friend yesterday that is a grief counselor and also deals with crisi counseling for rape, or unplanned pregnancies. When I gave him this scenario he said that #1 this women needs to be healed herself. She needs to get well. She needs to not be living in bondage or fear. That may be a lifetime process, but one that she can begin and achieve as Heidi has shown us. With a saving relationship in Christ, I believe that process can be even better. The second thing was that in the process of healing for this mom was also the disclosure process to family. When a person goes through a traumatic situation they are devastated. Healing needs to take place for them to be move on. If this Mom were not to get proper counseling, this daughter could be worse of than any of this truth could ever leave her.

One thing we have been doing is focusing heavily on the daughter, but we need to remember that the person who's life was attacked was this Mom. She needs love, attention and care. She needs healing and a moving forward in life, that can encourage her and strengthen her and make her well. If/When this happens, this Mom will know how to lead and talk to her daughter. To what ever extent she decides.

I apologize if I am not here much today gang. I am working 14 hour days this week and will catch up in the evenings when I get home. Tam will help me out though :)

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

TheNorEaster — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:11:59 -0000

Okay. I just re-read all of the comments again and...That's...I've got to get out of here or I'm going to say something I'm going to seriously regret...

TheNorEaster's last blog post...SunBeams 6

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

jon — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:50:44 -0000

WOW! there are tons of things to cover and no way i can get them all...first off i say that the truth has to be told...if it's not, i agree with tam, it's going to eat this woman alive inside...there is always going to be this wonder of what will happen if the daughter one day finds out...

if she tells her something other than what happened, then she will be telling a lie and opening the flood gates to even more hurt and more lies to try and cover up the lies...it could be an endless cycle...

i would definitely say that she needs to wait until the girl is of an age where she can understand the situation...WOW!

jon's last blog post...let go?!?

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

blessed1 — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:33:45 -0000

My book that's coming out has this type of story line to it...interesting post you've got going here. I think lying to cover up her daughters past could ripple into many other hurts and secrets, which is never a good idea. BUT choosing the right time and praying to God for guidance in telling her daughter would be the right thing to do. BUT essentially it's our own individual call on issues like these. We have to do what we as individuals feel is the right thing. If it were up to me, I'd tell the truth before it came out and hurt someone on it's own.

blessed1's last blog post...Just another Manic Day

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Ric — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:16:35 -0000

The truth in a case like this will eventually out itself. At best, the mom can hope for a fortunate flip of the coin. Advising the mother to live with the fear that her daughter may one day discover the truth on her own would be too much for me to lay on anyone's shoulders, much less a rape victim's shoulders.

My recommendation to the mother (given what little I know about the mother) would be to seek counseling. I would be very concerned that her asking of permission to hide her past is a veil for some shame or fear she is carrying.

Ric's last blog post...Knight of My Rescue

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

TheNorEaster — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:33:28 -0000

I've had this post and some of the comments roaming around my head all night. Some of the comments have inspired me--like Tam (as usual) & Heidi--and some have just absolutely infuriated me--and, well, nevermind that part. Another time and I would have addressed them, but I haven't had a day off since before Memorial Day and I'm not getting one until after Labor Day. And, granted, it certainly doesn't help that I haven't gone to church in a month and for whatever reason I don't care to. (Come to think of it, that's probably it: I DON'T CARE!)

But you know something? I swear I'd never thought I'd do this...but I was once involved with a woman who had been raped and had had a child as a result. And I once asked her the same question that everybody is debating here. I could tell you what she said, of course, but shortly after she answered my question, I realized I had no business pretending I would ever come close to understanding what she had been through. And I realized that most of my thoughts on the subject until then were just meaningless conjecture. And even now, I can only honestly say that I simply caught a glimpse. Because unless you've been through it, that's just about all it is--a glimpse. Or meaningless conjecture.

But you know what it was like for me? A cloud in the sky. On a bright, beautiful summer day with a gentle breeze blowing through my hair while I'm feeling the grass beneath my feet and the sunlight on my face. And to focus on something SO negative--rape--when you've got so much of God's glorious creation right in front of you because you actually took the time to get to know the mother and the child and you dared to believe that they were both made in God's Image...

...That's like spending a gorgeous summer day staring a single cloud wondering when it will rain. Do you want to stare at that cloud all dang day or see the beauty of God's creation that's right in front of you?

And Heidi (God bless her!), who HAS been through it--though she didn't say whether or not she'd had a child as a result--summed it very nicely when she said, "If I store it inside...then I won’t have a testimony of God’s grace, power, forgiveness."

And THAT truth has ALWAYS been good enough.

TheNorEaster's last blog post...SunBeams 6

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Heidi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:24:05 -0000

Wow.. What a subject here

How is transparency wrong?

I admit now without much reservation I was raped at 16 1/2 in my parents bedroom by my 45 year old next door neighbor. Today... at 41 years old and being a christian for many years I can be transparent about it. See I believe in God's grace.

Was I angry you betcha and "walt" define me for many years. I cannot even smell old spice anymore. BUT>>>

I have had some hard hits in my life. That's fine, but if I store them inside way deep where they belong like some of commenters feel. Then I won't have a testimony of God's grace, power, forgiveness and there maybe a woman or male or child who gets in that situation and they hold in so tight that they don't tell, that DAILY it starts to define them and mold them into something they aren't. Then it takes years and years to heal.

It's okay to share I believe...... as long as its the healing process has begun in someone's life.

Heidi's last blog post...Inside- Out Authenticity

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Brad Ruggles — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:16:50 -0000

Man, that's a tough question and good discussion. I really think that there is no black and white answer to the question. The beautiful thing about the Holy Spirit is that he leads and guides us each differently.

My first take on this question is that the truth will always get you further than trying to cover something up. But then again, this didn't happen to me so there is no way I could know what I would really do if this hit home for us.

In the end I believe that the truth will always set you free and is stronger than the lies that enemy tries to sell us. I would hope that if I were in the same circumstance I could seek God's face and find the strength to let God speak to me and bring healing and forgiveness.

Brad Ruggles's last blog post...Off The Top Of My Head

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

inworship — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:11:45 -0000

Roxx, thanks for the very kind words, and yes, I think my wife is extremely cool!

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

inworship — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:02:48 -0000

OK, Here is where I am are with all of this.

I think our feelings and opinions on both sides of this can come into play. but here is where I lie.

we cannot guarantee that things will be a certain way or people will feel a certain way. you can't live based on that. we have to live based on right and wrong. Truth and lie. I have to go with truth.

So, my process of dealing with situations would then be how to both learn from it myself and then how to teach others and walk others through it.

One of the most beautiful things about God's "saving grace" is that we from a past that could have been awful to a present and future that is completely transformed. This only happens when we come face to face with truth and reality. We can't be transformed or renewed from something we never new.

as much as I want to "protect" this littel girl fromt he truth, it is not eh little girl that has been damaged by it. it is her Mom that was raped. this litte girl actually has the truth of a Mom that loved her enough to keep her and not abort here, even in the midst of an awful situation. This little girl not only has a loving Mom that is now free of and healed from a horrid past, but also has a new loving and caring father. this girl is blessed.

For this girl to know the truth is to not devastate her, it is to show her how blessed and fortunate she is. She is alive, with a loving Mother who is safe and well, and a loving step Dad.

In truth, she will know of the dangers of rape, irst hand. She will know the freedom from bondage, first hand and she will understand the sanctity of life first hand. I would not keep that God ordained life from her.

Re: Truth Is Not Good Enough

Brandy — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:25:24 -0000

Another thought here, reading back through all of these comments and knowing how I would feel (as far as not wanting to know) it reminds me of something I learned about my mom and I am sure the mom in this instance is doing the same thing....

She is going to do her best with what she has. She will do what she feels best for her daughter when she is older. She may tell her and the daughter may be happy to finally know, or she may be upset at the horrible background of her father. Or, she could not tell her and if the daughter one day found out on her own, she could be happy to know her mom was trying to protect her, or she could be mad at her mom for not telling her. What I'm trying to say is that the mom will never know what the right choice is. We can all say in hindsight what we would do with our own situations, but every kid is different, every mom is different.
James had the best (and first) comment of all I think. No one can give a difinitive answer b/c everyone's situation is different.

My first comment on this said "no, don't tell" but I take that back (am I allowed? haha) Now after thinking about this longer I would say she should definately pray about it from now until forever and take into consideration the type of person her daughter becomes. One that could be strong enough to handle the truth, or one that would benefit from some loving protection. And I certainly wouldn't write anymore newspaper columnists for advice. :lol:

Brandy's last blog post...SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!