I've definitely heard this in the business world. Seems one of the few places that perception=reality is held as an absolute.
But when do we determine to go with absolute truth...instead of perceived truth?
BUSH
· 1 year ago
perception of what? oneself? or others? or what others think of you?
inworship
· 1 year ago
Bush, I see perception hurting people in all the situations you've mentioned. I guess I would say all of the above, but my take on perception is just my take.
I guess I am wondering if, in perception, we can find something good.
This isn't meant to be related to this post, but I just read Greg Sponberg's post on http://thelukesponbergfoundation.blogspot.com/ titled, "Halftime". I don't know if you visit that blog often, but his insights this time are exceptional (but that's probably just my 'perception' I guess =).
Thanks again for coming over to pray for Nick. It means a lot that you would want to.
He's having his MRI at 3:45 PM today, so that's a definite answer to prayer already!
D-
tawny
· 1 year ago
I don't think we should worry about perception. I think we should do what is right and leave the perception to God. If we spend time and energy on things for perception's sake, aren't we working on things that aren't real?
what about the perception others give off? the facades ('false' perceptions), that we so easily buy into - then base our lives on. think Hollywood, tv preachers, rock stars. living up to standards they themselves dont/cant keep. i think perceptions such as those degrade authenticity. also...i feel there is a link between giving a false perception and a feeling of inferiority. of course, thats just my own perception.
Do you mean 'perception' as being how we, as individuals, view things? Because if that's the case, you cannot get around it or away from it. Like it or not, EVERYONE sees things in relation to who they are, what their story is, how they've been conditioned by parents, friends, society, history, economics etc. etc.
I know this really irks some people but... what is absolute truth to you is not necessarily perceived as truth by me. And when people say that at least we have the absolute truth concerning God or what scripture has to say all we have to do is read about the council of Nicea the Diet of Worms or 3800 Christian denominations to see that this truth is not so easily discerned.
I think that is why living the "Golden Rule" is so important. I can't see how anyone's point of view can change the truth contained within that command.
inworship
· 1 year ago
Brandy, thanks :)
D, I am praying right now for his MRI. I will check out that link as well.
Tawny and Tam, you guys are speaking to my concerns.
C, I understand we can't get away from it. But we don't have to be ruled by it. My concern comes when people begin to take on the perception=reality as a lifestyle. I understand how business takes this on. It is all about the dollar, so image is everything. The problem is that in life, when we take on "image is everything" we live false hypocritical lives. This isn't about determining who has THE truth, it is more about the facts. Kind of like how we are teaching kids that everyone is a winner. What happens when that kid loses? The business model is being lived out in lifestyle and it is proving destructive.
Christian
· 1 year ago
I don't think we are talking about the same thing. It sounds like you are talking about 'image' - the often false perception that someone deliberately produces to influence an audience. What I'm talking about is the idea that people who come from different backgrounds (an extreme example would be a slave and a master) are likely going to see the same things much differently. This is one reason why so many USAmericans can't understand why so many people from other countries claim to hate us or why Sean Hannity doesn't understand Rev. Wright or why peace marchers don't get service men and women. Open conversation tempered with a little patience is key.
inworship
· 1 year ago
You know what...you hit it. You are right. I think that my take on the word perception has been based on how I've seen it used recently. People worried about being perceived as something.
I think that is interesting. So image is of issues, but perception is taking place based on image, which we know is not necessarily truth. You can't look at someone who looks rough and decide they are a drug user. That would be an image that created an incorrect perception. That's what's bugging me right now ab out perception. It is held in high regard, but it may be based on something completely...baseless.
Chicken Broth
· 1 year ago
ckroboth sent me over..
said you would get the wrong perception if love wasn't spread over here also.
Perception is a funny thing. Like if a man has to say "I love you" to another man. The way this world is set up there could be many negative perceptions tied to that, and many wrong ones as well.
Or if two people go through a relationship without telling the other something, because they perceive the other being hurt by what it is they have to tell them. (Did that make since? Ckroboth is so much better at this stuff than I am. ;) )
Any way .. .Um.. Ya.. well .. Luv ...um to ..um You... <--That is from ckroboth by the way.
Yeah. Ever read any Endo? A Japanese Christian (I think it was him)who wrote about how the first Christian missionaries who came to Japan were very unsuccessful in getting people to understand the Gospel. Then someone figured out that the Japanese could not accept this idea of God the Father. The traditional Japanese father (supposedly) is very stern, rigid, unforgiving and does not allow himself to show love. The idea of God being a loving Father, while still exhibiting the same stern characteristics of their own fathers, did not work for them. Their PERCEPTION of fatherhood would not allow it. This perception did not change the truth of scriptures but they could not see this particular aspect as being true.
inworship
· 1 year ago
I understand. But were they wrong in their thinking of what a Father is? Is there a definition of a father? Were father's in Japan, not a goo example of what a father is?
Here is a thought. Say there is a wonderful father. Loving, caring, a leader, a fair and just disciplinary. But his kids hated him, because he didn't give them what they wanted. He provided for their needs, he loved them unconditionally. But their perception was, he hates us because he won't give me. (I've seen this attitude by the way) Who's right? Who's wrong?
inworship
· 1 year ago
Sorry Chicken Broth, I forgot to acknowledge you :)
ckroboth
· 1 year ago
Brent you describe the Isrealites to a T in the last comment.
The Father is right, because he knows that our desire for what we want will never satisfy our needs. Our discontent with what we have makes us believe and percieve that our wants become things we need. Like wanting an HDTV, I don't need it. But if you believe the marketing your perception changes the want to a need. Now you "need" a HDTV to fullfill a want or desire.
It's not just who's right and who's wrong. Mud Puppy's correct - their perception is, when it comes to relationships, their reality. The Japanese couldn't be persuaded that their idea of fatherhood was 'wrong',because it wasn't. This was how fathers actually were in their lives. It was up to the missionaries to change the way they presented the Gospel in order to engage the imagination of the Japanese. I have heard that they were more successful when they concentrated on Jesus over and above teachings of the Father. Even so, Japan is one of the least Christianized countries.
As Chicken Broth (?) said, there are just some ingrained perceptions that we own that can't be overcome very quickly. Men in other countries commonly kiss each other in greeting. How well would that go over at your next men's grouping? ;) (Even though it is Biblical)
C, that is where I am struggling. Packaging doesn't change truth. God is a loving father. Whether they understood that or not, didn't change that. It sounds like Japan may have been better off today, if they had been taught what a loving Father looks like.
Carl, good thoughts. That line of going from what is need to what is want is definitely one that is easy to blur.
Seriously though, there is something I am missing here and I am trying to pinpoint it. it makes sense to me, but it's not connecting and so it is hard to verbalize. It kind of goes back to my "when is the truth not good enough" post. In perception lies this assumption that actual truth is held. It is "someones" truth, but whose? It's kind of like the perception that many spiritual people take in looking at Jesus. They don't believe in God, but he was a good man who had good things to say. Hmmmm.
love
· 1 year ago
Christian and i agree in very many ways - here is yet another, how we both 'perceive' the concept of perception (and possibly also of 'Absolute Truth').
Humans don't ever 'observe', all we can do is 'perceive'. By this i mean we use our five (6?) senses to 'access' all available information concerning both the outside and inside worlds but in using those senses we need to remember that each of us have developed our own individual 'filters' that seperate all incoming information and allow only varying amounts of that information 'in' - into our brains and thoughts/understandings. We never get to see a 'complete' reality - our poor brains would quickly become overloaded to the point of collapse if we ever actually did.
So we ALL 'perceive' an image - a mere shadow of what actually 'is' in order to be able to cope somewhat 'effectively'in the massively overwhelming real world of sound and colour and sources of information.
The danger is when we fail to adequately acknowledge this - when we begin to believe that what each of us sees is the only 'truth' or even worse is 'total' or 'Absolute Truth' and then, because we can see this 'truth', that anyone who can't is 'wrong' and therefore they and their perceptions are discounted as wrong or false when in fact it is we who are to 'blame'.
This is frequently the case when we find people with whom we 'share' a significant amount of perception and because one or more people 'seem' to see things the way we do then this confirms and stengthens our belief that what we see and only what 'we' see is 'right' or True.
Perceptions are individual but they can also be shaped to conform with those of a community, or a country, or a race. many of the filters that control our perceptions are passed onto us from our parental influences and can either be positively reinforced or negatively reinforced depending upon an emotion attached to any given perception. ( This is why some kids might see the dad you mentioned as loving and caring while others might see him as uncaring and unloving of their individual needs/emotions/wants)
Love, good to see you back. I appreciate your thought here. you always have a way of digging into the depth of it.
In many ways, we have gone way beyond my simple thoughts on perception, but we definitely understand it better now.
Let's take "truth" of the table and say "fact".
Fact. I am a registered Republican who has never voted for a Democrat. I work for a church. I have an opportunity to participate in a Democratic conference.
Perception (as people would see it, because of my choice of involvement) I am Pastor, who is Democratic, thus, I am por abortion, thus, the church i work for is liberal.
Action...people leave the church or make claims based on...perception which is false.
This is more of what we deal with day to day. Basic perceptions that are not truth and we end up bowing to them as if they should be accepted as truth. Many people in the position I have just written, would choose to not attend the Democratic conference, so that it wont look bad.
My take on that is...Why Why do we let perception reign in these situations. The problem in this situation is not mine, it is theirs.
love
· 1 year ago
An example is always a help in understanding/focus! :-)
first point: i'm quite sure you would agree that as a Christian you recognise the requirement He placed upon us to be responsible more to Him than to what other's might think of us.
We are not to take action based upon what others think or believe but what we believe is 'right' and of our God.
The best way to overcome the kind of perception you indicated is to consistently act in accordance with your own belief of what He tells you, with the proviso that we are to observe 'objectively' not subjectively the outcomes of our belief/action in order to be aware of any inaccurate belief we might possess that we might learn to correctly follow His Will for us all.
Act in complete Faith and not ever from fear.
If you can see His will, as a 'regitered Republican' in participating in and therefore adding some support to the DNC and have Faith that that is right for you you should do so. I can certainly see a possibility that Jesus may well do so if he wore your shoes for a time ;-)
If there is Good in it for Him - any who then only see bad in it and turn against you likely as not are not in Him.
Your perception that other's perception might cause them to reflect negatively on you and the Church you are connected to may well have truth in it.
If that is a negative thing you may decide to counter such perceptions by taking the opportunity either yourself, or through a proxy, to address your church and/or community to explain how you see your act as being a representation of your faith in Him (why you are doing what you do, or intend to do).
Considering others is one thing - living up to, or down to, their perceptions is something i would like to think i am better than but in all truth few if any of us actually are :-)
Be responsible to Him as well as to ourself, family and community and realise we are never responsible for the way others choose to think or perceive.
I have to agree with your feelings though... i see today's obsession with 'fame' to be such a false pursuit of perception, in large part assisted by the mainstream media, which is ruining people's ability to go beyond judging a book by it's cover so as to uncover the depth of truth under the veneer or surface appearances... the flashier it looks the 'better' it must be - i want it more!
Stay True to Him and You is the best advice i can offer - show depth and integrity in what you do. :-)
Love put this so well (particularly #22) I can't really add anything to it. I just would like to touch upon one thing you said, Brent:
God is a loving father. Whether they understood that or not, didn’t change that. It sounds like Japan may have been better off today, if they had been taught what a loving Father looks like.
From a theological, not anthropological perspective, how is this done? Father God is a metaphor - a tool that is used to help some of us to comprehend just a little bit of God's incomprehensible nature. It is no more a 'fact' than the concept of the Trinity. They are theological models. If God, in his wisdom, had chosen ancient Kyoto instead of Jerusalem, as the place for his incarnational sacrifice then the language might very well be different. Even so, the term 'son' had a very distinct definition in Jewish culture that today is lost on many Western ears. Jesus' "sonship" is not a 'fact' yet it is so much more than fact.
ckroboth
· 1 year ago
Brent.. As Love said so well follow God... Don't do what is best for you, because you are afraid of ruining your image. Do what is best for God so that you can spread the image of Him through you.
Love ya Brother. Wonderful thought provoking post.
Love, addressing the perception is something I am trying to do. even with this post. Trying to help us just think through how they can determine our choices and decisions. that's not OK, unless they've been thought through first. Thanks for great insight.
C, I hear you. I did use "God as the Father" in my example, but my point is this. We do know what a loving and Godly Father looks like. The scriptures have given us a great example of what that looks like. So, it seems appropriate to share that with others who have not experienced it. The Japanese, may see the "light" and change their ways?
Carl, no issues there. I have never been one personally to run on image. That is why perception drives me nuts, cause they work hand in hand. I truly want to decide, based on truth. Thanks!
Casey Ross
· 1 year ago
Hey Brent! I had a Sr Pastor I worked for a while back who always said "perception is reality". It drove me crazy. I would always silently (in my head) argue with him. The last few years, though, I think I am agreeing with him more and more. Yes, perception is not always true. Sometimes it is far from the truth. But the people who hold that perception think it is true, and that is a pretty significant thing. I pay attention to peoples' perceptions a lot, and when then perception is incorrect, I always see it is an opportunity to cast vision, teach, etc.
Perception equals reality...even if it's a false one.
Rather than be frustrated with it, I will choose to see it and confront it. I am always going to have a hard time making decisions because of it, but that is my hang up. I will truly pray for wisdom in how to face it.
Christian
· 1 year ago
You've encouraged me to post a little piece on this. I'm reminded of the outward appearances that the Pharisees felt were so important as well as the perception they had of Jesus and those 'sinners' he hung out with.
C, Awesome! I'll be anxious to read your thoughts.
A.
· 1 year ago
We totally have to be careful with perception, i.e. our perception of others. As soon as we "perceive" something, we've often felt it in ourselves as reality. For example, one of your co-workers hasn't said a word to you all day, which is odd for them, and you *perceive* that this is because you must have made them angry. You then could a) ask them to find out if this is the case, or b) expand on perceiving in your mind to worrying about possible situations that could arise from their anger, or at what you think you might've done wrong.
And in the end, you find out they aren't mad at all and that their silence has nothing to do with you, instead, they either have a sore throat/lost their voice, or they are just having a hard day and don't feel like talking!
That's just my example of how perception can go wrong if we take our perceptions for reality when they might not be truth. :)
Me, I can do the above in situations. So, I'll say for myself that, yes, I can give perception way too much power.
Amanda, you've brought up an aspect in this that we really haven't focused on. That is our responsibility in it. If we see perception as damaging, we need to be cautious (as you have said) to not be the one creating the false reality. I agree. Thanks for jumping in!
All Comments
Mud Puppy's last blog post...Summer Sabbatical
But when do we determine to go with absolute truth...instead of perceived truth?
I guess I am wondering if, in perception, we can find something good.
Brandy's last blog post...I Will Boast
Thanks again for coming over to pray for Nick. It means a lot that you would want to.
He's having his MRI at 3:45 PM today, so that's a definite answer to prayer already!
D-
tawny's last blog post...Home......
tam's last blog post...a.m. check-up
I know this really irks some people but... what is absolute truth to you is not necessarily perceived as truth by me. And when people say that at least we have the absolute truth concerning God or what scripture has to say all we have to do is read about the council of Nicea the Diet of Worms or 3800 Christian denominations to see that this truth is not so easily discerned.
I think that is why living the "Golden Rule" is so important. I can't see how anyone's point of view can change the truth contained within that command.
D, I am praying right now for his MRI. I will check out that link as well.
Tawny and Tam, you guys are speaking to my concerns.
C, I understand we can't get away from it. But we don't have to be ruled by it. My concern comes when people begin to take on the perception=reality as a lifestyle. I understand how business takes this on. It is all about the dollar, so image is everything. The problem is that in life, when we take on "image is everything" we live false hypocritical lives. This isn't about determining who has THE truth, it is more about the facts. Kind of like how we are teaching kids that everyone is a winner. What happens when that kid loses? The business model is being lived out in lifestyle and it is proving destructive.
I think that is interesting. So image is of issues, but perception is taking place based on image, which we know is not necessarily truth. You can't look at someone who looks rough and decide they are a drug user. That would be an image that created an incorrect perception. That's what's bugging me right now ab out perception. It is held in high regard, but it may be based on something completely...baseless.
said you would get the wrong perception if love wasn't spread over here also.
Perception is a funny thing. Like if a man has to say "I love you" to another man. The way this world is set up there could be many negative perceptions tied to that, and many wrong ones as well.
Or if two people go through a relationship without telling the other something, because they perceive the other being hurt by what it is they have to tell them. (Did that make since? Ckroboth is so much better at this stuff than I am. ;) )
Any way .. .Um.. Ya.. well .. Luv ...um to ..um You... <--That is from ckroboth by the way.
Chicken Broth's last blog post...Faith leads to….
Here is a thought. Say there is a wonderful father. Loving, caring, a leader, a fair and just disciplinary. But his kids hated him, because he didn't give them what they wanted. He provided for their needs, he loved them unconditionally. But their perception was, he hates us because he won't give me. (I've seen this attitude by the way) Who's right? Who's wrong?
The Father is right, because he knows that our desire for what we want will never satisfy our needs. Our discontent with what we have makes us believe and percieve that our wants become things we need. Like wanting an HDTV, I don't need it. But if you believe the marketing your perception changes the want to a need. Now you "need" a HDTV to fullfill a want or desire.
That make since?
ckroboth's last blog post...Faith leads to….
As Chicken Broth (?) said, there are just some ingrained perceptions that we own that can't be overcome very quickly. Men in other countries commonly kiss each other in greeting. How well would that go over at your next men's grouping? ;) (Even though it is Biblical)
Chicken Broth's last blog post...Faith leads to….
Carl, good thoughts. That line of going from what is need to what is want is definitely one that is easy to blur.
Seriously though, there is something I am missing here and I am trying to pinpoint it. it makes sense to me, but it's not connecting and so it is hard to verbalize. It kind of goes back to my "when is the truth not good enough" post. In perception lies this assumption that actual truth is held. It is "someones" truth, but whose? It's kind of like the perception that many spiritual people take in looking at Jesus. They don't believe in God, but he was a good man who had good things to say. Hmmmm.
Humans don't ever 'observe', all we can do is 'perceive'. By this i mean we use our five (6?) senses to 'access' all available information concerning both the outside and inside worlds but in using those senses we need to remember that each of us have developed our own individual 'filters' that seperate all incoming information and allow only varying amounts of that information 'in' - into our brains and thoughts/understandings. We never get to see a 'complete' reality - our poor brains would quickly become overloaded to the point of collapse if we ever actually did.
So we ALL 'perceive' an image - a mere shadow of what actually 'is' in order to be able to cope somewhat 'effectively'in the massively overwhelming real world of sound and colour and sources of information.
The danger is when we fail to adequately acknowledge this - when we begin to believe that what each of us sees is the only 'truth' or even worse is 'total' or 'Absolute Truth' and then, because we can see this 'truth', that anyone who can't is 'wrong' and therefore they and their perceptions are discounted as wrong or false when in fact it is we who are to 'blame'.
This is frequently the case when we find people with whom we 'share' a significant amount of perception and because one or more people 'seem' to see things the way we do then this confirms and stengthens our belief that what we see and only what 'we' see is 'right' or True.
Perceptions are individual but they can also be shaped to conform with those of a community, or a country, or a race. many of the filters that control our perceptions are passed onto us from our parental influences and can either be positively reinforced or negatively reinforced depending upon an emotion attached to any given perception. ( This is why some kids might see the dad you mentioned as loving and caring while others might see him as uncaring and unloving of their individual needs/emotions/wants)
<B
love's last blog post...Self-Discipline - Part 2
In many ways, we have gone way beyond my simple thoughts on perception, but we definitely understand it better now.
Let's take "truth" of the table and say "fact".
Fact. I am a registered Republican who has never voted for a Democrat. I work for a church. I have an opportunity to participate in a Democratic conference.
Perception (as people would see it, because of my choice of involvement) I am Pastor, who is Democratic, thus, I am por abortion, thus, the church i work for is liberal.
Action...people leave the church or make claims based on...perception which is false.
This is more of what we deal with day to day. Basic perceptions that are not truth and we end up bowing to them as if they should be accepted as truth. Many people in the position I have just written, would choose to not attend the Democratic conference, so that it wont look bad.
My take on that is...Why Why do we let perception reign in these situations. The problem in this situation is not mine, it is theirs.
first point: i'm quite sure you would agree that as a Christian you recognise the requirement He placed upon us to be responsible more to Him than to what other's might think of us.
We are not to take action based upon what others think or believe but what we believe is 'right' and of our God.
The best way to overcome the kind of perception you indicated is to consistently act in accordance with your own belief of what He tells you, with the proviso that we are to observe 'objectively' not subjectively the outcomes of our belief/action in order to be aware of any inaccurate belief we might possess that we might learn to correctly follow His Will for us all.
Act in complete Faith and not ever from fear.
If you can see His will, as a 'regitered Republican' in participating in and therefore adding some support to the DNC and have Faith that that is right for you you should do so. I can certainly see a possibility that Jesus may well do so if he wore your shoes for a time ;-)
If there is Good in it for Him - any who then only see bad in it and turn against you likely as not are not in Him.
Your perception that other's perception might cause them to reflect negatively on you and the Church you are connected to may well have truth in it.
If that is a negative thing you may decide to counter such perceptions by taking the opportunity either yourself, or through a proxy, to address your church and/or community to explain how you see your act as being a representation of your faith in Him (why you are doing what you do, or intend to do).
Considering others is one thing - living up to, or down to, their perceptions is something i would like to think i am better than but in all truth few if any of us actually are :-)
Be responsible to Him as well as to ourself, family and community and realise we are never responsible for the way others choose to think or perceive.
I have to agree with your feelings though... i see today's obsession with 'fame' to be such a false pursuit of perception, in large part assisted by the mainstream media, which is ruining people's ability to go beyond judging a book by it's cover so as to uncover the depth of truth under the veneer or surface appearances... the flashier it looks the 'better' it must be - i want it more!
Stay True to Him and You is the best advice i can offer - show depth and integrity in what you do. :-)
<B
love's last blog post...Self-Discipline - Part 2
God is a loving father. Whether they understood that or not, didn’t change that. It sounds like Japan may have been better off today, if they had been taught what a loving Father looks like.
From a theological, not anthropological perspective, how is this done? Father God is a metaphor - a tool that is used to help some of us to comprehend just a little bit of God's incomprehensible nature. It is no more a 'fact' than the concept of the Trinity. They are theological models. If God, in his wisdom, had chosen ancient Kyoto instead of Jerusalem, as the place for his incarnational sacrifice then the language might very well be different. Even so, the term 'son' had a very distinct definition in Jewish culture that today is lost on many Western ears. Jesus' "sonship" is not a 'fact' yet it is so much more than fact.
Love ya Brother. Wonderful thought provoking post.
ckroboth's last blog post...Faith leads to….
C, I hear you. I did use "God as the Father" in my example, but my point is this. We do know what a loving and Godly Father looks like. The scriptures have given us a great example of what that looks like. So, it seems appropriate to share that with others who have not experienced it. The Japanese, may see the "light" and change their ways?
Carl, no issues there. I have never been one personally to run on image. That is why perception drives me nuts, cause they work hand in hand. I truly want to decide, based on truth. Thanks!
Casey Ross's last blog post...The Intangibles
Perception equals reality...even if it's a false one.
Rather than be frustrated with it, I will choose to see it and confront it. I am always going to have a hard time making decisions because of it, but that is my hang up. I will truly pray for wisdom in how to face it.
Christian's last blog post...“Oh. Is That All?”
And in the end, you find out they aren't mad at all and that their silence has nothing to do with you, instead, they either have a sore throat/lost their voice, or they are just having a hard day and don't feel like talking!
That's just my example of how perception can go wrong if we take our perceptions for reality when they might not be truth. :)
Me, I can do the above in situations. So, I'll say for myself that, yes, I can give perception way too much power.
A.'s last blog post...Sunday Setlist - 08/24/08