brent(inWorship) - Latest Comments in Death Of The Christian Industry

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

scott — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:46:02 -0000

Some other exceptional Christian musicians/bands:

Salvador
Ceili Rain
Thousand Foot Krutch
Kerry Livgren/Kansas
Burlap to Cashmere
Big Tent Revival
Newsboys
Caedmons Call
Ricky Scaggs
Ashley Cleveland

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

scott — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:31:07 -0000

We've really started to try to get away from advertising the band as "Christian" because it really limits the amount of opportunities we get to get out and play. It still is the main focus of what and who we are but we've included more "secular" songs with good lyrical content and tweaked some lyrics in order to put them in the set.

When I get asked what kind of music we play I usually say lyrically correct.

I like the the term "Christ follower" that CK used earlier because I fear that Christians in general have a lot of recovering to do in order to give that name the credibility it deserves.

Oh, and don't forget Toby Mac's band on the exceptional list :)

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

scott — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:18:44 -0000

Jimi Hendrix once said in an interview when asked who the best guitarist in the world was, he said go talk to Phil Keaggy.

What ever happened to that 80's Christian hair band Quest? They had some catchy riffs and lyrics.

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

badguy — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:34:27 -0000

Seen him live a couple times. The first time I saw him (a couple years ago) I had no idea what looping was - thought he was using a pre-recorded track or something.

He is definitely in my 'top 5' of all time guitarists.

badguy's last blog post...Random Thoughts

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

BuddyO — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:05:44 -0000

Hey, I said "in my opinion"...

Keaggy on the other hand is one of the best acoustic guitarists I've ever seen and master of the loop pedal.

Have you ever seen this:

Salvation Army Band

Give yourself time, it's like 9 minutes of acoustic awesomeness...

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

badguy — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:56:30 -0000

For the record, Nicole C. is Mull-EN not Mull-INS.

Rich Mullins can't have been all bad - didn't he die on a motorcycle?

badguy's last blog post...Random Thoughts

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:36:21 -0000

Nope. I was wrong. It' "My Deliverer" not "My Redeemer". Funny though, I've never heard "My Redeemer" and it's by ANOTHER Mullins ?!

Hmm. Coincidence? Or....?

Christian's last blog post...Evolving Christians: Is Darwin Really the Enemy of Faith?

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:30:43 -0000

No, it's Rich Mullins - I had it on an album "somebody else sings Ragamuffin Songs" by Rich Mullins or something like that. Apparently it was his last album that never made it to studio. Wouldn't be too surprised that their are two Christian songs with the same name. Kind of a limited subject matter. (Unless she is related to him?)

Gosh, Buddy. I haven't listened to any "Christian" music in so long. I got burned out on it. Occasionally some Bryan Duncan because he sounds 'secular' (you turned me on to him but I know you only like that one album). Now if I want something 'spiritual' I'll go to classical or maybe the soundtrack to the "Mission". (GREAT movie by the way. Just saw it again after 15 years or so.)

Christian's last blog post...Evolving Christians: Is Darwin Really the Enemy of Faith?

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

BuddyO — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:17:21 -0000

Uhh... that's Nicole C. Mullins not Rich Mullins...

You don't like it anymore?

BuddyO's last blog post...Motörhead Fans are a Bunch of Softies (who knew?)

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:09:52 -0000

Oh. He wrote THAT? Well nobody's perfect. I used to like "My Redeemer Lives". Very peppy.

Christian's last blog post...Evolving Christians: Is Darwin Really the Enemy of Faith?

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

inworship — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:32:25 -0000

Mullins is an amazing songwriter, but the use of this song "God is an Awesome God" speaks HUGE to this whole post.

Mullins is known for that song, cause the church made it "popular". It is an inspirational song, but not a great piece of art. Unfortunately it is held as a standard for Mullins and others. That's where we as Christians have failed in this. We feel good about something and then hold certain things to standards they shouldn't be held to. Rich wrote that song for use in his local church. That's cool. But then to make that a standard for Christian art is a mistake and wrong.

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

BuddyO — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:26:44 -0000

RE: Mullins

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just putting on the Ritz
Our God is an awesome God

enough said....

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

badguy — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:08:14 -0000

Does marketing on independent labels (refusing to go the CCM route) count?

Exceptional:

Glenn Kaiser/GKB
Maron
Phil Keaggy
The Lee Boys
Darrell Mansfield
Derek Webb
Third Day
The 77s
The Lost Dogs
Daniel Amos
Mark Heard
Keith Green
Larry Norman
Mylon LeFevre & Broken Heart
Jennifer Knapp
Charlie Peacock
Randy Stonehill
David Crowder Band
Psalters
John Michael Talbot

I'll skip the bad ones for now...

badguy's last blog post...Random Thoughts

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:38:37 -0000

Damn, Buddy. Can't you let the dead rest? I'm no fan of his (nor any of the "exceptional" ones you mentioned - just not my speed) but I don't think you can stick Mullins in with that group. Just not to your taste.

But c'mon- even the 'good' ones; so many of them all keep playing each others same old 4 verse songs - all those hand wavers (I know, that was me once). At least that's what it sounds like on the radio. And in concert, btw.

"Safe Theology" great name. And taking it back to Darby - how sadly true.

Christian's last blog post...Evolving Christians: Is Darwin Really the Enemy of Faith?

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

BuddyO — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:28:53 -0000

Would a couple of you be willing to cite examples of what you feel fits in this category and also cite examples of Christian music/artists that you feel are exceptional?

Of course, all my opinion and include only those who are labeled 'Christian'. It does not include the many great (and crappy) artists who market in the mainstream and are also Christian.

Exceptional:
- Waterdeep
- Delirious
- Phil Keaggy
- Skillet
- Switchfoot
- Derek Webb
- Lincoln Brewster
- Robert Randoloph
- Barlow Girl
- Plumb

Bad:
- Carman
- Ray Boltz
- Whoever that guy is who wrote that song about witnessing on the airplane.
- Maranatha Praise Band
- Bill Itzel (dude I saw at Baseball Game 'Faith Night')
- Petra
- Rich Mullins
- Any of those story songs ala 'Christmas Shoes'

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Vince — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:36:01 -0000

Christian industry is a direct result of American 'Safe Theology'. When Darby and the like came up with 'pre-trib' eschatology a 100 years ago or so, they started a snowball effect of separatism that continues to grow a wider gap.

We have a massive contingency of safe theology in America, that I think the rising generations are tired of and I believe we will be able to shed in the next 50 years. but like pulling of a band aid, it will hurt a bit.

vince's last blog post...What the World is Saying

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

badguy — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:50:13 -0000

Mark - sorry for the misquote. what I heard you saying was "you can't judge the good/badness of music by the music - music itself is amoral, but add lyrics and you can then tell it's good/badness.

I agree and I don't. I'm still pondering this. I'm quick to say that 'secular' lyrics merely reflect the heart of the artist, but then I'm also quick to judge the pablum that passes for lyrics in many 'christian' songs...so I've got to be fair about this.

Brent - Yes. I was thinking that adding words also doesn't make the music good/evil. But thinking about it more I guess it does go to motive. Still, to call something 'good' or 'evil' when it is simply artistic expression. I think the line I want to draw (and I think many are agreeing) is that much of what is passed for 'christian' music today is hard to call "art" - it is much more marketing-laden fluff that is designed to sell the music and make the record companies lots of money.

We talk about mainstream/secular artists "selling out" - and I think we mean that we perceive that what started as artistic expression ended up being marketing pablum.

So, my work in progress statement is that ART expressed in any medium is neutral - neither good nor evil, but simply a window into the soul of the artist.

Chew on that for a bit - let's see where that takes us...

badguy's last blog post...The Purpose Driven Blog

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Ed — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:18:27 -0000

I think the Internet has changed the way any product is marketed, and putting any label on a song is marketing strategy.

The radio is still an effective tool to get a song before the public. However with iPods and other music soft-wear(?) we can now create our own "play-list" to listen to. A recommendation in a popular blog will help a song get noticed. I think this may become the primary source for new music in the not to distant future.

A video on You Tube may get more people interested in a song than having it played MTV. Someone posting a link to a song on Twitter can get a song almost as much coverage as it would if played on a radio station.

If we are looking for a song that is appropriate for our children it is better to trust a recommendation from someone we know than a label created as part of some marketing campaign.

Ed's last blog post...How To Stay Healthy

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Mark — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:30:34 -0000

That's a really cool bear, Christian.

Ok, back to music.

Mark's last blog post...Simon's Cat 'TV Dinner'

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:13:26 -0000

No - wait a minute. It's not just music. How about books and movies. There have been many wonderful Christian writers (or writers who are Christian) Lewis, Chesterton, Sayers, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Tolkien - but what about today's "Christian" fiction writers? Who do we have that's really that good?

And movies? Forget about it. I think the best one I've seen was "The End of the Spear". The rest; "Ben Hur", "The Mission", "Chariots of Fire" - were secular studio releases. (Let's not mention "The Ten Commandments", please)

OK, back to music.

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

carrie-the gremlin wrangler — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:12:52 -0000

Well said! I agree.

great thoughts.

going to read the article now...

carrie-the gremlin wrangler's last blog post...Very Un-Gremlinlike

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

inworship — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:01:58 -0000

In-N-Out rocks!

OK, back to music :)

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:22:54 -0000

Sorry, no more food. Back to music. (Sigh)

Christian's last blog post...Stewardess Claims Osteen Gave Her Hemmorhoids While Knocking the Faith Out of Her

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Christian — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:21:53 -0000

Yeah, Logio Zoolander (found on my site)exhorted me to check out In and Out Burger when I went out west last month. Great place. (I think Brent endorsed it as well)

It reminded me of another Christian owned chain, Chik-fil-a. Not only do they do a nice job but it's a pretty good place to work. My daughter's best friend works at one and they put their money where their Bible is. (That didn't sound right, did it?)

Christian's last blog post...Stewardess Claims Osteen Gave Her Hemmorhoids While Knocking the Faith Out of Her

Re: Death Of The Christian Industry

Mark — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:09:17 -0000

Christian, really good points here. I love all genres of music (well, you can leave out country, but that's another rant), so it would be a shame to only listen to music labeled Christian.

Your point about buying goods and services from only Christians is good too. Why sequester ourselves from the rest of the world?

(Plus, sometimes I get worried when I do business with other Christians, 'cause I've experienced them getting really flaky - looking for special deals, etc, just 'cause they're a Christian. Come on!)

It shouldn't be that way, but many times it is!

I must say though, I got pretty excited when I found out that my (already) favorite burger joint, In-N-Out, is a company privately owned by a strong Christian family. There's even hidden scripture references on most of their paper wrappers and cups. They have a great reputation as a restaurant, an employer, and they are the cheapest place to eat in town for my family of six. It's good food too!

I hope they inspire many other Christian business persons to be excellent, be fair, and be the best in their field.

Mark's last blog post...Simon's Cat 'TV Dinner'