brent(inWorship) - Latest Comments in An Open Letter To Married Men

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Heidi — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:12:49 -0000

@Badguy.. I'm sure that has to be so tough. Praying....

<abbr>Heidi´s last blog post...Green Pastures Part 3- Pearl Discovery</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

inworship — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:11:43 -0000

Bad, I do not know what you are feeling and going through. I have not had any of this happen personally to me. I watch it from the outside constantly, I watch it destroy people, but I cannot imagine the battles you must face in your heart an mind. My prayers are with you.

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

inworship — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:09:44 -0000

D, exactly. Semantics. I choose to do what's right. I figured that statement was enough.

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

lazrus2 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 21:58:35 -0000

Tam,
Thanks for the clarification. I guess I just see 'care' and 'love' going together (though different in definition), and the need for choosing both. So, I'll assume he was seeing the terms as equivalent (i.e. 'choosing to love' = care?).

Where I wanna be too,
D-

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

badguy — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:29:26 -0000

My daughter just attended her first counseling session for being a victim of abuse in her marriage. I don't think much of her husband; he's emotionally and intellectually a child, and doesn't understand how much of a predator and abuser he is. It's sad because to a degree it's not his fault; but how do you take someone that is so broken and restore them to anything close to being a decent and contributing member of society - yet alone a loving husband and father.

I don't say this lightly; he is that far gone, and has no comprehension of his own condition. Every action he takes is a manipulative ploy to get his way. No one is without hope? No one is beyond redemption? I want to believe that, but it will take a miracle (one of those truly inspiring, write a movie of the week, stop the presses intervention type of miracles.

To be honest, I have a hard time praying a prayer that will restore him if it means he'll continue to be in relationship with my daughter.

Lord, have mercy on me.

<abbr>badguy´s last blog post...Where’s Badguy?</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

tam's blog — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:56:24 -0000

D- said to brent...

"but is it safe to assume from your response in #34 that you don’t even WANT to ‘care’?"

i say, NO. read his response again...

"I don’t care for them. I can’t stand them. I hate what they are doing. But God calls me to love, so I choose to do that. And choose to help those who are willing to receive that help."

he "chooses" to. therefore he wants to. he wants to honor God in that way.

sorry, but i just wanted to help you see that.

<abbr>tam's blog´s last blog post...outside my front door…</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

lazrus2 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:24:26 -0000

'Sorry it's taken me this long to get back, but is it safe to assume from your response in #34 that you don't even WANT to 'care'?
I think Nor's comment (#42)addressed that well, so I won't write more.

This has all reminded me of a book I read several years ago that I believe is very relevant to this topic. It is "Broken Children, Grown Up Pain" by Paul Hegstrom. He also wrote another titled, "Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them", but I haven't read that one, though it sounds even more applicable.

Looking back over sections I highlighted, there is so much that applies here. He (Paul) was that 'abusive husband' you wrote to, and it really helps to hear his perspective 'after he made the turn around'. He doesn't make excuses for his behavior, but does give 'reasons' to help with understanding how helplessly 'out of control' he was without realizing it or knowing why.

Here's a quote:
"Though we mask our pain, our emotions inevitably surface in our actions. We become emotional pressure cookers as our behavior, attitudes, and anger bleed out in what we perceive as safe, low-risk ways -- yet we're never able to resolve the inner turmoil...
Many of us are dying inside because we can't see a past wound as the source of our adult behaviors. We're powerless and helpless, feeling like children in an adult world. Our abilities to understand our emotions, resolve our conflicts, manage our anger, and cope with our sexality were stolen from us when were were hurt. Because we're arrested in our development, we can't see the whole picture. We act like children wanting what we want when we want it. This mind-set ushers us into the world of denial. We don't even understand how our pain affects our needs and desires. When we can't identify our issues, we can't address them. We feel powerless and hopeless. We spend the rest of our lives in a survival mode, trying to stay alive emotionally and physically." (from pp. 22-25).

It is definitely true, as you said, that the 'abusers' have to WANT to be helped before anything will come to light or change as a result, but I think we do have to make every effort to understand 'where they're coming from' and have as much compassion on them as the ones they abuse (though it is definitely MUCH HARDER!!). If they sense we don't care for them in any way, how can trust be established to come along side when they do admit their need?

If you're interested in the book at all, there was actually a copy of it in the sound booth for a while (I got my own copy to mark in =). It disappeared from there quite a while ago when someone cleaned up, so I don't know if it's still around anywhere.

For anyone else though, I got my copy through www.family.org so, it might still be available there.

I do suspect that the wives who find themselves the object of abuse have seen the 'broken child' side of their husbands at some point, and that gives them the compassion and hope to keep 'holding on'.

As to staying in the abuse, I'd say that might 'enable' more than resolve anything. I'll head on over to inprogress to read and possibly comment more on that related post though.

Also, I was curious about Ric's take on all this since his Dad (I assume the same Dad he referred to in his comment #41 above)is now a believer and they have reconciled. I wonder how his Dad sees himself 'then' and now that he's a 'new man'?

D-

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Roxx — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:03:33 -0000

PS:

I found this in my devotional Bible:

"The image of a mature marriage that I like best is that of two people making music together. Each plays their own instrument and uses his own unique skills, but they play the same song. Each is whole and complete. Each is independent and committed," By: John Bradshaw

Wow. I need to go hug my husband and thank him for being one awesome incredible child of God, husband, father and man. While I know your heart here was to help the hurting, you reminded me I have so much to be grateful for. My testimony on this one is that I dont have a testimony on this subject. I have been blessed with an incredible relationship since dating over two decades ago. Thats a lot of love. Time for hugs and thank yous.

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Roxx — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:58:53 -0000

It's sad that hurting people like to hurt people.

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Heidi — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:01:52 -0000

Thank you for standing up in the gap.
It didn't go unnoticed.

Keep standing people need you too.

You are an awesome husband!!! Know that!!!

<abbr>Heidi´s last blog post...The Glory of Friendships</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

darla — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:18:45 -0000

B, good post..i commented earlier today, and lost it.. :(

so long story short..Amen, and yes God does heal those wounds and scars, but some of them will raise their ugly head when I least expect it...the power of the tongue is huge. Of all the abuses I have suffered under..verbal is the worst. I would rather take the punch than hear what a lower form of life I am..those things stick like glue, and I have to every day...meet with God and go over who I am in HIM, so as not to let those things get an upper hand on me.

God has blessed me with a great husband, and since being with him, I don't experience abuse, so the trickle down theory is ...he spent many years showing me that he was different..so nice guys get the hard end of all this when meeting a girl that has gone through the negative. I thank GOD for men like Scott and you..what a great patience HE has placed in you both to help women like me stand back up. love you

<abbr>darla´s last blog post...What we have done to the least of these…or not done</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

TheNorEaster — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:50:31 -0000

All right. I went to Tam's post and saw that she had written about this. The phrase "my man went on a rant yesterday" got my attention.

Brent...I have never known you to rant. So I knew this HAD to be important. Due to my exhaustion yesterday, I never read the post. Although, thinking about it now, that was probably a good thing because my rant probably would have been much, much worse than yours. Yes, I can see your anger and your frustration up close, but more than that, you are focused. Determined. Tenacious. And just flat-out pissed off. With very good reason.

The older I get, the more I realize that everyone has the power and the capacity to be abusive in some way, whether physically, mentally, or emotionally. Consider for a moment your own words: "God says I need to show you love. I don’t like that." Without proper guidance from The Spirit--which I believe you are getting--those words, that perspective, could become very, very dangerous. I understand, all too well, your anger. But Jesus told us to love our enemies for a reason. Because when exactly that much is right in our relationship with God--which, mind you, I believe we show in our relationships with others (especially those we don't like)--then that anger becomes a righteous force instead of a path to the sin of self-righteousness and, ultimately, destruction.

The Misifts know my "wrath." When I see that somebody is doing something wrong, I am patient enough to give counsel without condemnation. It is only when someone crosses the line that I let loose my wrath. And because they respect me, because I have earned their friendship, my words in that moment are far, far more effective than some sort of lecture. I've given plenty of lectures in my time and I've found them tremendously INeffective if the person does not consider me a friend in every sense of the word.

Sometimes, all I need to say--in a quiet (NOT argumentative or confrontational) but, Yes, an intimidating voice- is, "What the hell are you doing?" When you personally know the person with the problem, when you know their struggles and their history, when you know their pain and they have trusted you enough to share it with you, a sentence like that is all you need. It becomes an alarm clock to them. You have earned the right to say that because the person knows you care, knows you love them. Just like God has the right to rebuke and discipline His children for the very same reasons (albeit on an infinite scale). That's why love is so important when we, as Christians, are faced with such dreadful situations.

AND, I believe, the anger that I show in moments like that is the healthy side of the emotions that lead to abuse. For instance, the first time I used that sentence (can't give examples, sorry), I was told later by the person to whom I had said it that it stabbed like a knife. That seriously scared me. I am not always aware of the power that I have. But I do know, as a writer, that the power of words is immense. And, fortunately, I had used that power in a positive way. And that person woke up to the reality of a bad situation because, again, I had earned that person's friendship first. After that, the person turned away from a self-destructive path.

We don't just need to say the right thing. We need to say the right thing at the right time to the right person in the right situation. And we need, above all, to follow the greatest commandments: "Love God with all you are" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Because TRUTH WITHOUT LOVE IS ABUSE.

(I apologize for the length.)

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Ric — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:17:54 -0000

Dang B, where were you 40 years ago? I grew up in a house where mom and children conspired to hide or quickly repair any broken items before dad got home. As a child, I admired his (imitation) strength and longed to be as "tough" as him. As a teen I despised him and vowed to never be like him in any way. That vow, of course, was my downfall.

Thanks for this post Brent. You da man.

<abbr>Ric´s last blog post...Remodeling</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

pete — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:54:27 -0000

B -- you're my hero -- good stuff!

i ain't perfect and know that i do not give 100% in the practice of Eph 5:25ff... and she ain't perfect in living out Eph 5:22. BUT, I love how we are both moving ever closer to that end as we submit ourselves to God. if neither one of us were open to refinement (read: correction and readjusting of attitudes and perspectives toward one another) through the Holy Spirit then we won't be able to live honestly before God and we'd just be living a shell of an existence... and then there *really* wouldn't be much "man" or "woman" worth tryin' to feel superior over. We'd just be feedin' into ourselves and getting worse!

<abbr>pete´s last blog post...Samuel.</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Michelle — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 08:39:18 -0000

Brent, thank you. I have an amazing husband who has always and only sacrificed for me. Which is a good thing because I am quite damaged from a father who verbally and emotionally abused my mother and us kids. It's hard to understand how a person can be so ugly toward another, especially the ones under his care. I think there are times my husband wonders if the damage will ever be healed...I wonder it sometimes too.

I have God and I have a precious gift from Him, my husband...and yet there is still pain. Husbands and Fathers, the damage done can be irreversible. Feeling of worthlessness can be overwhelming.

Thanks again, Brent. Brought some "stuff" up...

<abbr>Michelle´s last blog post...Messy Spirituality</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Odgie — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:23:45 -0000

Wow Brent. Something punch your buttons? This is a great post. I see this kind of thing in my work all of the time. It makes me wonder why some men get married at all - it seems as though they hate every minute of it. Of course, there are also those who would never commit physical adultery but leer and oogle every attractive woman who crosses their path. That's just as destructive and pathetic.

<abbr>Odgie´s last blog post...Tagalicious</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

A woman — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 02:05:54 -0000

@Carrie.. Don't let the jerkwads win. Stand up and recieve the promise that God will cleanse you from this.

I know the words hurt,jagged, makes you boil and are scarring and thinking that you are all alone and nobody cares.

You feel like wooden boat in the rapids of the river, wondering if the boat will fall apart. It won't. God will also take away the thoughts and the suffocation one at a time as LONG AS YOU GIVE HIM them.

This is the lesson I am learning right now.. this minute.
WE cannot do it alone.

Surrender the words don't let them keep you captive..
(mmmm.. a word for me too)
Hang in there... prayin

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

inworship — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:44:33 -0000

And Carrie I am praying for you. I know that where you are now can be an amazing opportunity to prove Gods healing powers.

<abbr>brent(inWorship)´s last blog post...The Real Thing</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

inworship — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:30:37 -0000

D, that's what I said. I don't care for them. I can't stand them. I hate what they are doing. But God calls me to love, so I choose to do that. And choose to help those who are willing to recieve that help.

Nor, fine.

Carrie, be bold in challenging those you know now to stand up and be real men. I know you will.

<abbr>brent(inWorship)´s last blog post...The Real Thing</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

carrie-the gremlin wrangler — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:22:29 -0000

Dang, Brent, I wish I could forward this link to the jerkwads who did the damage to me. Fortunately they've been out of my life for a long time. But their scars still remain. God does heal, but those words never leave my head.

<abbr>carrie-the gremlin wrangler´s last blog post...October: How I Love Thee</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

TheNorEaster — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:12:24 -0000

"...this goes to all men in any stage of relationship."

Um...that doesn't apply to me, either! ;)

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

lazrus2 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:09:58 -0000

There was one sentence that I left out of the quotes I agreed with above (#7). You may or may not have noticed, but it was:
"I don’t care for you."

I can't agree with that because even if we know we need to "love them because it is the right thing to do", that will never happen if we "don't care."

I suspect that is where those people are who choose to maintain hope in those kind of abusive situations. It still may require 'tough love' to show that care, and possibly separation to stop the abuse, but I think we have to remember, as Pastor Tom often says, "Hurt people hurt people."

So, if we don't even care enough to try to understand (without condoning the wrong,) how can we ever hope to be used in the healing process (Gal. 6:1-2)?

D-

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

inworship — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:03:48 -0000

"People that wanta change can take raw truth."

I completely agree.

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

Rachel — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:53:28 -0000

WOW! You're awesome! Tell em' like it is brotha. Raw truth is the best kinda truth there is. People that wanta change can take raw truth.

<abbr>Rachel´s last blog post...Success: Anybody Know Where The Key Is?</abbr>

Re: An Open Letter To Married Men

inworship — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:39:41 -0000

Tyler, good I was pulling for you :)

All kidding aside, I am not concerned whether the discussion ends up here, I would just like to give people the opportunity to allow the discussion to start here. I hope men read this, take it to heart and then do with it as they will/